Flashback Friday: The Elephant or the Zoo

In this Flashback Friday episode, the ladies revisit Episode 3: The Elephant or the Zoo. Silence isn't always golden. Join us as Kerry and Chrisy explore what happens when families either ignore or normalize dysfunction. In other words, do they refuse to talk about the Elephant in the room or invite the whole zoo!  Kerry and Chrisy share personal stories that reveal the ripple effects of their contrasting family dynamics. Through opening up about these challenging topics, Chrisy and Kerry aim to foster healthier relationships built on empathy, understanding and of course, humor. Tune in to explore these complex themes and discover the power of breaking the silence. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Flashback Friday
• 3:31 Contrasting Approaches to Family Dysfunction
• 7:42 The Elephant in the Room
• 13:28 Childhood Trauma and Survival Tactics
• 19:22 Setting Boundaries as Adults
• 25:45 Breaking Our Family Cycles

Transcript

DJ Nick: 0:07

Welcome to a Flashback Friday edition of the Dysfunction Junkies podcast. We may not have seen it all, but we've seen enough. And now here are your hosts, chrisy and Kerry.

Kerry: 0:21

Hello Junkies, welcome to Flashback Friday. I'm Kerry and

Chrisy: 0:25

I'm Chrisy,

Kerry: 0:26

so today we thought we'd flash back to episode three. This was when we talked about the elephant in the or the elephant or the zoo. Yes, not the elephant in the room.

Chrisy: 0:37

Well, there was a definite talk about the elephant in the room.

Kerry: 0:41

In this episode, Chrisy and I talk about our contrasting childhoods and how they shaped our lives as adults. So Chrissy any enlightenments after we aired that.

Chrisy: 0:51

Yes, definitely. The first thing I want to say is that I was really amazed because we had developed that topic and then, after we like really got into it and we're talking about it, I mean I was like really impressed with with us not to give ourselves a pat on the back, but why not? I mean the fact that we really did have yes, and I think we nailed it yeah the difference in how we were taught to deal with dysfunction yes which is sort of the whole idea of why we're doing this exactly and the fact that you were basically told we don't talk about it.

Chrisy: 1:25

Right, the best way to deal with this is you just don't talk about it. Does that mean you stop thinking about it? Absolutely not, and but it's never addressed, it's never resolved for you. Right. And then, with my background, yes, it's like, yeah, we talk about it, but we turn it into something it's not Right, it's not dysfunction, it's normal, it's normal, it's normal. And so you accept it and you move on to the next dysfunction that we're going to turn into something normal.

Kerry: 1:50

Yes, yes, yes, and that was how.

Chrisy: 1:51

I was raised and the one thing that I called Carrie about immediately after it happened was my mother was listening to some of the episodes and I had brought up to her that, yeah, you know, when we talked about the fact that my grandfather who did like to drink, but we were never to say that he had any sort of problem with alcohol and that he was not nice to my grandmother.

Kerry: 2:17

Right, you've mentioned that Right.

Chrisy: 2:18

And it was like, you know, it was expected that that's their dynamic, that's their relationship, that's what it is. And my mom listened to it and I said, you know, yeah, I was kind of making a joke about it, but yet it's not right. It was slightly abusive, if not very abusive. Exactly, he would really berate her and be really unkind, right? But we normalized it because that was sort of like that's a dynamic of their relationship. You were even thinking that way then. What you weren't Right.

Chrisy: 2:47

But that you know well he would sleep it off and then he'd be perfectly fine, Right? So you have to accept that. That's just part of the whole banter between the two of them, Right? And when I brought this up to my mother, she sat there for a minute and said nothing and I expected her to say you know what, now that I'm thinking about it, that was really wrong, it was unfortunate, and my mom really didn't deserve that.

Chrisy: 3:10

You know what she said. She got used to it, chrissy, and I could not believe again and I didn't even know how in tuned I was to what my environment was and what you would categorize my dysfunction as, as a normalization of it, until she did that and I said I couldn't believe I was completely If there was anything in my whole life I was ever right about it was the fact that, yes, we normalized the dysfunction and my mother still programmed to just say she got used to it, it was fine, it's fine, yep.

Kerry: 3:41

I don't know. Yeah, it's crazy. There's been so many moments of enlightenments throughout all of our episodes, but we definitely thought this one deserved a flashback Friday because, especially for our newer listeners maybe haven't gotten to go back to listen to the beginning ones we do reference this a lot. We do hope you enjoy this flashback Friday episode and, hey, share with us some enlightenments that you may have so enjoy. So last episode we talked about the start of the holidays and the seasons and the family get together. So we thought it would be a good time to talk about the different dynamics that Chrissy's family and my family had growing up and how this kind of affected us and so my family. We did not talk about things, we suppressed it, and I always say the best way to describe my family was we didn't talk about the elephant in the room, right?

Chrisy: 4:35

Chrissy, what did you do? Well, we talked about the elephant and the whole zoo. We normalized everything. So, if there was some sort of dysfunction happening, it's normal.

Kerry: 4:49

Yeah.

Chrisy: 4:49

So we talk about it. Of course, we're not putting it in correct context, or you know totally. You know facing it and trying to deal with it in an appropriate manner. Right, it's just normal. So that's where it ends. Yeah, this is normal. So that's where it ends. Yeah, this is normal. Yeah, and that's where it ends we didn't talk about it and again, these are not clinical terms.

Kerry: 5:08

I don't think right, these are not in the dsm, you know carrie's gonna talk about that I had no idea what the heck, she said, she said the dsm is a diagnostic statistical manual for mental disorders you know so, but again that's just because I majored in psychology in school Nice. But yeah these are not technical terms. These are the terms we use to describe our life and our family. So yes, no clinical like correct terminology here.

Chrisy: 5:36

Probably we are not therapists. We are not bound by any of those rules and laws. Just trying to explain our feelings and what was happening to us.

Kerry: 5:46

And this is kind of why this podcast came to be because Chrissy and I reconnected, we were talking about life and families and the things that we were going through and we realized that, you know, a lot of this stemmed from our childhood, our childhood traumas and how our families dealt with things and how we both, in our own way, kind of rebelled against that. So for me, especially because my family has taken the art of don't talk about the elephant in the room I mean, they've got it down, pat I found myself a lot of times talking about things. You know, I would say something to my family like you know, what are we doing, or this isn't right, or whatever. You know it was quite upsetting to the rest of the family. I wasn't following the rules.

Chrisy: 6:30

Don't break out of the rules.

Kerry: 6:32

I know, you know they're like. You know, carrie, you don't talk about this. You know we might go say a rosary about it, but we're not going to talk about it.

Chrisy: 6:39

Oh boy, now I'm having another flashback, that's for another episode and I do think that you're exactly right how we came together on this, because I think we were experiencing some very similar situations, and when we use the word trauma yes, yes, these things help make us probably, who we are. I'm sure a lot of people have had the same type of events and situations. A lot of people have had the same type of events and situations, but the whole thing was, some of these events and situations were very similar for us. Yes, the thing that really caught both of our attention with each other and that we found so entertaining to talk to each other about it was the way we were taught to deal with it.

Kerry: 7:21

Yeah, and we definitely realized there were very two different approaches Equally dysfunctional, but two different approaches Absolutely Gotta love it. You know just little things growing up. If my family want, you know, I'm trying to even think of a good example of something, but gosh, I don't know. Tell me something off the top of your head.

Chrisy: 7:42

I can talk to you about normalizing some of the things that I was exposed to very early on. I have a grandfather who was a steel mill worker, was born here but then went back to Italy and lived there early on for quite a few years, then came back here and he liked to drink, yeah, and I think that a steel worker earned their money very hard way.

Chrisy: 8:07

Right that was very hard work I can't even imagine. Very hard way. That was very hard work I can't even imagine. And it was very typical for them to stop off at the local drinking holes that were strategically situated near steel mills for their workers to come in and kick some back before they got home. And so early on it was very much understood for me when I would be left to be watched by my grandfather and grandmother. I don't know that they were watching me as so much as I was watching what the hell was going on with them. But yeah, my understanding was is that even though my grandfather was no longer working in the mill by the time I was little, he had that same schedule.

Kerry: 8:51

Oh, his routine.

Chrisy: 8:52

His routine. Yes, so in the morning when he was up he was wonderful. Yes, lovely guy.

Kerry: 8:58

Yes.

Chrisy: 8:58

Very nice. Everything was nice and calm Around lunchtime. It's time for grandpa to leave. Oh, so he was getting ready to go to one of his regular watering holes. Okay, that was how his lunch was spent. My understanding, being little, was not where he was going and what was happening there, but that I knew when he came back there was going to be a different person coming Oy vey. So it's funny you say that, because that's one of his words he used to say.

Kerry: 9:27

I'm channeling your grandfather. Here, you are channeling him. I'm channeling your grandfather. You are channeling him.

Chrisy: 9:30

But I knew that the guy was going to come back in a lousy mood and be not nice to Grandma, and so I do remember he'd have his coat and his hat on and ready to go out the door. I would make him kiss Grandma goodbye. Aw, I don't know. And I knew because I knew it was going to be a different situation. And when he came back he was unpleasant and angry and saying horrible things to her and my grandmother would do a biting of the hand at him, A lot of hand gesturing.

Kerry: 10:03

Yeah.

Chrisy: 10:04

And not nice words, I suppose.

Kerry: 10:06

But this was all normal and everyone accepted it. It was just like okay, grandpa wakes up, good goes out for lunch, comes back not so good.

Chrisy: 10:14

Takes a nap back to good usually, oh, okay.

Kerry: 10:17

Or at least halfway decent. Until the next round. Until the next round, yeah, okay.

Chrisy: 10:20

But if you try to tell anybody in my family, especially those directly beneath him, in the family tree that Gramps probably had a definition of alcoholism issues. No, no, no, oh no.

Kerry: 10:37

Not at all.

Chrisy: 10:38

No, he liked to drink. He worked hard.

Kerry: 10:40

He earned it.

Chrisy: 10:41

He earned it. That's right. That's right. We said that at the same time. Isn't it funny how we earn things like that we earn our right to drink yes, which, hey, don't get me wrong, I am no prude. I've sometimes in the past have felt I've earned my right to have a little fun too, but unfortunately, in my opinion only my opinion the way those drinking things were happening. It wasn't about having fun.

Kerry: 11:04

No. It was just part of what they knew, right, right. So in my family we did have a family member that partaked in the drink, okay, and one of those episodes where this particular family member was kicking it back as early as nine in the morning. Oh wow, they had to take me to softball practice. And I was probably maybe eighth grade I don't know how old is that Like 14-ish or whatever.

Kerry: 11:33

Yeah, 13, 14. So they took me to baseball practice. My parents were out of town, I think this particular person was watching me while they were out of town. The baseball field was maybe three miles from the house. So we went to baseball practice and I think this family member was, you know, tipping it back the whole time while I was at practice, in the car at the parking lot. So whenever practice was over, I was like, okay, we can go home. And they said to me I'm really sleepy, why don't you drive? Um?

Kerry: 12:01

Again, I was like eighth grade, did not have a driver's license and other than driving the family pickup truck in a field to pick up hay because again grew up out in the country, kind of a thing you know, slow, stop, go, stop go While we were picking hay up on the field.

Kerry: 12:17

I'd never been driven a car, never been on the road with a car, but yet they wanted me to drive home. And I realize now it's because they were smashing drunk at 10 o'clock in the morning whenever we had to come home. So I think I got maybe two blocks on the main road and I was terrified I was going to get pulled over by a cop and so I stopped and I made this person drive the rest of the way because I was afraid of getting in trouble. But I didn't talk about it, never talked about it to the rest of the family or whatever, because we don't talk about things. So, yeah, but I skipped going to practice the rest of the week when that person was watching me, because I was terrified that I was going to have to drive home.

Chrisy: 12:56

Well, listening to you, I would have to sit here and wonder. First of all, is it okay that they recognize outside the fact they were doing something horrible?

Kerry: 13:02

Right.

Chrisy: 13:02

Drinking when they were drinking and drinking when they had somebody in their care.

Kerry: 13:06

Yeah, a minor, a child, a child yeah. And they were trying to put them in the driver's seat and the fact that they recognize they shouldn't drive, I guess I'm somewhat amazed yeah, a little bit, but does not, it makes it.

Kerry: 13:18

It's still very terrifying to think about it was yeah, again, we didn't. I. I didn't talk about it because I knew in my family there was no use in going to mom and dad and saying, hey, you know someone, so was tipping back and they made me drive home Like because all that would have been done was like, well, you're, you're safe. The answer, I'm sure, would have been your home safe now, so it's OK, and moved on. That would have been how they would have handled it, because we're not going to talk about it.

Chrisy: 13:42

We're not going to address it.

Kerry: 13:43

Right Say rosary.

Chrisy: 13:45

I wonder my family probably been like. Well, what kind of car did you, you know? Did you put your seatbelt on? Well? Yeah, I mean that wasn't even a thing at that age yet completely, but they're probably like you know what do you think? How'd you do? Do you think you know? Did you get some practice in early Chrissy?

Kerry: 14:04

Yeah.

Chrisy: 14:07

You know, hey, all right. You know, did they sleep it off while you drove or were they able to help you get direction? So, yeah, wow, wow, that's a tough one to think about. Yeah, but yeah, normalizing it's an odd thing because until you and I started talking, I never really had a definition of what exactly was going on. Yeah, yeah, exactly, I knew it wasn't your same experience. Right, the experiences were there.

Kerry: 14:29

Yeah, the dealing with how we dealt with it different, yes, very different, very different and that's kind of what started a little bit of divide for me as I got older and started really recognizing this because of my how I always dealt with things, I was kind of going against the rules on it. And so my family my nickname in the family is the sheriff, because I'm the one who will be like wait, stop, that's not right. You know that we shouldn't do it that way or, you know, trying to like bring control and talk about it, and then the rest of the family is like, hey, what are you doing? You know you can't talk about this or whatever. So, yeah, they call me the sheriff, but it has created some problems because I've been very vocal, which is the exact opposite of what they want to do, and my family, because of this no response is like a deafening response. So if they don't agree with something that you're doing, you'll get the silent treatment like there'll be no response.

Kerry: 15:21

I've and that's again it's just caused a lot of problems growing up because now there's like a little divide because I talk about things I went against the grain. Yeah, you sure did. I did. I will probably get the no response when they listen to these episodes because I'm talking about the elephants, what?

Chrisy: 15:41

are you talking about, and me too. Well, I would have to say that, yeah, the whole thing with normalizing it is. I guess the only thing I would be accused of at this point is saying it's not normal, yeah, and it shouldn't have been treated as such. Right, you know, but what do you do with a person of that generation?

Kerry: 15:59

Yeah.

Chrisy: 16:00

And you know, it's just. I mean, eventually, I think they took his license off of him because he was older and he was still going to the watering hole, oh geez, and he would just start running into things yeah, this car, yeah, and leave, so and this was not going to stand anymore. So I think a lot of storytelling had to go on the shoulders of my parent who had to deal with that directly, to try and make them understand that they just uh, their license wasn't going to be renewed anymore and we had to get rid of the car, uh, which I think a lot of people with parents, older parents who are reaching that point have had issue making their parents understand that there's just a time to say no more.

Kerry: 16:41

Yeah, yeah, I'm still waiting for my family to try to say no more. It's just not happening.

Chrisy: 16:48

Well, you're sitting there waiting for it, and I'm the one that said you know what no more, bye, I'm out. Oh, my, so true.

Kerry: 17:00

Yes, also with that all like just how my family dealt with things is I, you know, like I said, I'm I'm really good about trying to give, and we talked about this once before. But I will give people a chance. Sometimes I give them a pass, which is not always good, but when I'm done I'm done them a pass, which is not always good, but when I'm done, I'm done. And sometimes it takes me a while to get there, but, boy, when I'm done, I'm done. And that's where I say healthy boundaries. And that was probably one of the best things I did for myself when I realized that it's okay to have people in your life, whether it's a friend, a coworker, a family member, that when you realize this is not healthy, that you can take a step back and say I don't need to have you part of my life every day, whether you're family or blood or not, or whether you're a co-worker like I can be cordial, but I can draw the line. But it took me 50 years to get here.

Chrisy: 17:52

Right? Well, we were both, I'm sure, brought up with the same philosophy and maybe I've said it before, but we've talked about it quite a bit that saying that they try to throw at you their family, you don't have to like them, but you have to love them. Yeah, bullshit. Love is a very strong and it needs to be a very earned emotion from somebody that's good.

Kerry: 18:15

That's a good way to put it earned.

Chrisy: 18:16

Yes, you have to earn that and the fact that that line is thrown out there so much. Yes, it is that. You know why do I have to? You know we share similar blood, mind, dna or whatever Not exactly and I'm guessing the person who was getting screwed over by family isn't the one that was acting like an idiot right so, hey, you don't have to like me right now, but you're gonna love me.

Chrisy: 18:40

How do you like me now? How do you like me now? I don't like you, I don't love you. Get the hell away from me. Exactly. And a lot of arguments have come from uh, my, my mom is a big disciple of that way of thinking yes she has uh but she's taken it even further where I I mean like it's just love with her. She just I have to love. This is what I've been programmed to do my whole life.

Kerry: 19:02

Oh, that's true, I have to love, love, no matter what. Yeah, yeah.

Chrisy: 19:06

So I mean other things, that the alcoholism is tough, and my grandmother, I think, had probably definitely diagnosis of depression if she was ever actually treated for that Right. But again back then, 40 plus years ago, they didn't really treat for that.

Kerry: 19:24

The alcohol was the treatment.

Chrisy: 19:26

Right, well, she didn't drink, the husband was dealing with that, yeah, but that was another thing. Grandma's sad Grandma's, you know it's. Grandpa just totally said horrible things and she's going to be depressed for a while. But again, we didn't suppress it, right. We just said, yeah, this is going to happen, right, we're going to all sit down for dinner and Grandpa's going to say horrible things about people, and that's just the way it is. Right, it's normal, it's normal.

Kerry: 19:52

I had a family member, one of my parents' relatives family member, that suicide of my parents relatives family member, that suicide, and they wouldn't talk about it. It was just like oh so and so passed away, but like it was, somehow I remember hearing, probably, you know, through a wall or something of that, how they could suicide and that it was a suicide, but no one would talk about it. Don't talk about it. We went to the funeral, we did all I mean, but don't talk about it. And and it was kind of you know know, it was like we should have talked about it, we should have talked about that In any ways it was. It was just. It was sad now looking back at that because it was an opportunity where we could have had a learning experience. We could have had more empathy, we could have more empathy for the rest of the family that was directly related to that person, but no, we just didn't talk.

Chrisy: 20:35

So no, those experiences are like not talking about it. Therefore, you can't sort of try to help each other, right, you can't learn from it. And then talking about it to the point where you just say it's just normal right, there's no reason to dive into it any further. Yeah, because it's. You know, this is normal, right, there's nothing else to be said, right, except it. So you again, you're losing out on that opportunity to learn from it and help, yeah, help things and there was also a part of the like.

Kerry: 21:03

Because of that we didn't talk about things. There was like not accepting any responsibility for behavior. So now you know, a common term that's used nowadays is gaslighting, and it's probably one of my favorite words. People around me probably are sick and tired of me saying it, because I can understand what gaslighting is, because in a way, that's kind of what I grew up with. There was a lot of oh, that didn't really happen, or it didn't really happen that way, or we're just going to be quiet, we're not going to react to it. We're not, we're going to be dismissive of your feelings, you know, and so it's. It's just crazy to think about, like just the environment of how I grew up and where we are, where I've come now, so to see the growth in that. But it's hard, especially when you're the kind of the outcast of the family, because you're having these different thoughts and different ways of dealing with things.

Chrisy: 21:50

Right, Well, I've had an experience with some major life-changing events with family members in my dynamic and it seems that all these things that we dealt with younger the dysfunction type, family gatherings, family personalities, what we had to endure to spend time together you had to come into the situation of the holiday or the weekend or the dinner or a wedding and you had to understand what to expect and you had to accept what you were going to see and experience.

Chrisy: 22:23

Just look, check your personal feelings at the door. This is what's going to happen, and because some situations have arose over the last few years that all of a sudden now we're really talking about it Not that we didn't talk about it then, but now the question as to why we put up with it is come up.

Kerry: 22:40

Why did we? Why did we do that? And?

Chrisy: 22:42

I feel a little offended by that question. I'm not the one that brought that question into the mix, right, I knew why we put up with it.

Kerry: 22:48

Yeah.

Chrisy: 22:48

Cause who the hell is going to take us at that point. There's a point in your life where you're sort of stuck with these people. So survival, survival, this is my tribe right now. So I gotta go along with this. And then you get older and you get to meet other people yeah, hopefully a better class of uh citizens and you realize that. You know why. I know why. Yeah, why are you sitting here asking why? That's a waste of time yeah how about?

Chrisy: 23:13

why you don't get the hell away from me? You know I don't want to talk about why. Now, jesus christ, I put that in the past. Now we're going to sit here and chit chat about it. We were sitting there talking about it all the time. Oh, my gosh, you know. I mean. Come on, why, why?

Kerry: 23:27

Why did I put up with this Survival? That is the best word to sum that all up Because now, when I look back at things, I think how much of it was survival for me, absolutely.

Chrisy: 23:40

Well, yeah, I mean, you're a kid and you're a teenager, and not with you, because I know you were less self-absorbed than I. But my whole thing of survival was mom and dad, buy me whatever I want. You want me to believe that grandpa being a shithead at Christmas and Thanksgiving and making grandma feel bad is okay and and that's just the way it's going to be.

Chrisy: 23:59

Yeah, absolutely, I'm going to get myself everything I need here. I got the, I've got a good setup. Why am I going to rock that boat? No way. Yes, I am a horrible person.

Kerry: 24:13

Everybody said well, I mean I admit it.

Chrisy: 24:15

I'm not sitting here asking why was I a horrible person? I Well, I mean, I admit it.

Kerry: 24:26

I'm not sitting here asking why was I a horrible person? I'm telling you, yes, I was a horrible person and very self-centered and was going to tolerate all your flippin' lousy bullshit just to get what I wanted. Yes, your family normalizing things and me from my family suppressing things and not talking about things. We all we had to each come up with our own ways to survive and move forward and to become the highly functional people we are today. Oh, very fun.

Chrisy: 24:49

The only thing I think I've learned in my life is that my tolerance level is even lower than it's ever.

Kerry: 24:54

Oh yeah, Amen to that.

Chrisy: 24:55

But I think that's OK. It is is because, if anything you're supposed to say not liking you, but loving you, yeah, no, yeah, not even gonna do that.

Kerry: 25:04

No, healthy boundaries healthy boundaries bye well, this will be good because this is definitely going to give people some insight as we talk about things in future episodes and everything that you know. They'll be able to understand some of this when we talk about the elephant in the room, or normalizing or suppressing, because, again, they're maybe not the Wikipedia definition of these, but it's how we describe it. So this was good to have this conversation going into our future podcast.

Chrisy: 25:34

Absolutely, and if you don't recognize it in yourself and your situation, which I'm sure you will- yeah. You're going to be completely overwhelmed, I think, at the idea of how you recognize this and other people's yeah, and why it kind of makes them who they are.

Kerry: 25:47

Yes.

Chrisy: 25:47

But it's a good thing. Yeah, as horrible as these things are.

Kerry: 25:51

Yeah.

Chrisy: 25:51

And I don't want to say that whole cliche thing. But what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. But I think it does help shape you in a good way if you're able to process it in a good way.

Kerry: 26:01

This is true. My mom used to always say it's going to get worse before it gets better. Oh, that was like nails on the chalkboard for me growing up, but I see the light of that. But yeah, it's going to get worse before it gets better. But I think I'm on the better now.

Chrisy: 26:16

So that's, you are at a good place. I I'm of the opinion that it's going to get worse, and then it's going to get even worse and it's going to get even worse. It might improve, just like a hair, and then it's going to get really bad again. That's. I'm sorry, I don't mean to.

Kerry: 26:32

I'm throwing no hope out there for you people oh, that's why we yin and yang, because I I always do somehow.

Kerry: 26:38

Again, it's how I grew up things trying to find the good in people, trying to find a good of something that just give me some way to get through into the next episode yes, and that's wonderful yeah so maybe on our facebook page we'll kind of do a little poll, we'll see if people were more like your family in the normalizing or if they were like my family and the suppressing and don't talk the elephant in the room, or maybe we'll just put an other, that they didn't relate to that and they had their own style, and if you had your own style comment on facebook and so that way we can see. I would love to know to hear it.

Chrisy: 27:10

I have a hard time. I'm almost terrified to think that there's other there's another horrible ways. There's another thing, but I'm sure there are I'm sure there are but, maybe you guys listening to this didn't realize that that's one of those ways, was the way your family approached things, but chances are that is the way, and remember this is a vicious cycle, people it is because that's the way they were taught to handle it exactly exactly 100.

Kerry: 27:34

So, and again, we're we're not licensed therapists, know this is just us dealing with our own childhood traumas and everything that we've dealt with in our life and this is our safe space here. We hope it's your safe space, that you can listen to this and, you know, maybe have your own little therapy, as you're listening and like our therapy is talking to each other.

Chrisy: 27:53

So I think you're selling yourself short the fact that you knew the name of those, those letters, with that what is that?

Kerry: 27:58

a book, or it's a? List of something, somebody, somebody who spent a lot of time making up this stuff my college education that I paid for with no help from anybody, which, again, that'll be another podcast episode on that.

Chrisy: 28:11

But yeah, it paid off because I know what a dsm is and my parents paid for a little bit of mine and I can't tell you what they got for their money, but I got a degree.

Kerry: 28:20

You got. They have a daughter who is a podcaster now.

Chrisy: 28:23

Yeah, sorry, mom, I didn't become that famous singer you thought I was going to become.

Kerry: 28:29

All righty Well. Wherever you're listening to this podcast from, whatever your streaming device is, we'd really appreciate if you could give us a five-star review. Check out our Facebook page, our Instagram page. You can even go to our website, and it's dysfunctionjunkiesbuzzsproutcom. Learn a little bit more about us, and we'll look forward to having another episode coming to you next week.

Chrisy: 28:51

Yes.

Kerry: 28:51

All right, talk to you later. All Bye, bye-bye you.